Battalion Guns and Skirmishing

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viperofmilan
Sous-lieutenant
Messages : 128
Enregistré le : mer. 12 févr. 2020 22:56

Re: Battalion Guns and Skirmishing

Message par viperofmilan » sam. 27 févr. 2021 12:52

You pays your nickel and you makes your choices.

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zeitoun
Maréchal d'Empire
Messages : 1066
Enregistré le : sam. 19 janv. 2019 15:57

Re: Battalion Guns and Skirmishing

Message par zeitoun » sam. 27 févr. 2021 16:12

From my expérience, i saw reformed skirmishers only twice :( and they haden't guns :)
Cordialement

Olivier M

RogerGreenwood
Chef de bataillon
Messages : 384
Enregistré le : ven. 29 nov. 2019 20:55

Re: Battalion Guns and Skirmishing

Message par RogerGreenwood » sam. 27 févr. 2021 18:43

Not a common occurrence I agree.

viperofmilan
Sous-lieutenant
Messages : 128
Enregistré le : mer. 12 févr. 2020 22:56

Re: Battalion Guns and Skirmishing

Message par viperofmilan » sam. 27 févr. 2021 23:27

Absolutely not a common occurrence. Never seen it myself. I just think if a player is dumb enough to arm his light infantry with battalion guns, and then breaks the unit down into detached skirmishers, he deserves to lose the battalion guns when the unit flees, enters difficult terrain, or crosses an obstacle.

RogerGreenwood
Chef de bataillon
Messages : 384
Enregistré le : ven. 29 nov. 2019 20:55

Re: Battalion Guns and Skirmishing

Message par RogerGreenwood » dim. 28 févr. 2021 10:29

But some units that could skirmish did have battalion guns. They must have been aware of what they were doing and had a method of handling the situation.

viperofmilan
Sous-lieutenant
Messages : 128
Enregistré le : mer. 12 févr. 2020 22:56

Re: Battalion Guns and Skirmishing

Message par viperofmilan » dim. 28 févr. 2021 13:08

Forgive me Roger, but please do not cite history. This is a game. There are examples of entire French divisions being deployed as skirmishers, but the rules do not permit that. You can find examples of almost anything that happened in history (see for instance the thread about mixed Ottoman units) that the rules simply do not envision or allow. All I am suggesting is that if the author had intended some special dispensation for skirmishers with battalion guns he should/coulda/woulda have included it in the RAW; as he did in the case of cossacks for example.

RogerGreenwood
Chef de bataillon
Messages : 384
Enregistré le : ven. 29 nov. 2019 20:55

Re: Battalion Guns and Skirmishing

Message par RogerGreenwood » dim. 28 févr. 2021 23:55

You may be correct. On the other hand, it is quite a rare case and he may not have considered it. Hopefully he will make a pronouncement on this at some stage. I presume he is busy with other issues currently.

viperofmilan
Sous-lieutenant
Messages : 128
Enregistré le : mer. 12 févr. 2020 22:56

Re: Battalion Guns and Skirmishing

Message par viperofmilan » lun. 1 mars 2021 00:38

Not trying to be difficult (I just come by it naturally) :oops: and I suspect you are correct. I really do not wish to criticize Herve in any way as I LOVE THESE RULES. I've never written any rules myself, but as I understand things this is like the 4th edition, so I also would expect the rules would be fully evolved by now.

RogerGreenwood
Chef de bataillon
Messages : 384
Enregistré le : ven. 29 nov. 2019 20:55

Re: Battalion Guns and Skirmishing

Message par RogerGreenwood » lun. 1 mars 2021 08:59

I have been involved in the writing of three sets of rules. It is a difficult task. More play always brings up new issues. The alternate division moves particularly is a difficult system to rule for.
I agree very much that BE is an excellent rule set. All the basic mechanisms are clear and quite cleverly designed. It is great to play. All the discussions have been about quite minor points.

Duc d'Brisbane
Sergent
Messages : 55
Enregistré le : dim. 1 mars 2020 02:40

Re: Battalion Guns and Skirmishing

Message par Duc d'Brisbane » jeu. 4 mars 2021 05:09

Good discussion, particularly if you consider how to handle exceptions that are not covered by rules. The odd case of Battalion Guns + Full Skirmish order, but the same applies to any oddity that always comes up every other game.

How you handle it depends on what the tone of your gaming session is. Sometimes you just want a fun game that reaches a conclusion with the minimum of stress, a few laughs, and hang out with friends that you havent seen for a while. In that case, roll a dice, or win a drinking challenge .. whatever works.

Sometimes you want the full immersion in the pressure of command.

General rule we apply in these cases, if we are in a command simulation mood :

- Consider the worst possible outcome for the player involved. In this case, it would be that the BN guns are lost, or possibly even captured by the enemy, along with the unit HQ that was supposed to be guarding them, the regimental mascot, battalion rum stash, and the adjutants mistress as well.

- Question: Do the player's orders clearly state what is happening with the BN guns as part of the order to deploy that unit into full skirmish order ? No ? then worst case applies, no arguments, no dice rolls. Always the worst possible outcome.

If you are doing it right, then the player will be constantly in terror of bad orders, and will spell everything out like :

Code : Tout sélectionner

3rd Battalion will deploy to Skirmish order and advance
patrols in advance of the line to prevent ambush at the woods line
HQ will retire to the village to your right and form defensive perimeter with the 3pdr section at the ready
Just to make it harder, put a time limit on it. 30 seconds to consider all options, make a decision, then communicate it clearly in spoken words

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