shooting through artillery units - the clarification

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KeefM
Sergent Major
Messages : 77
Enregistré le : jeu. 26 déc. 2019 07:59

shooting through artillery units - the clarification

Message par KeefM » sam. 18 sept. 2021 19:03

heya all,

Was perplexed by the clarification that says: "Artillery can optionally shoot through an enemy artillery unit against a unit behind it, even if it is at a different range."

How does that work in practice ?

The target priorities don't permit the enemy artillery to be a priority because it isn't a formed unit. And any formed unit is a priority ahead of unformed.

The only way I could see the option being used is if there were nothing but unformed units in range (at any range) and then only if the artillery was straight ahead.

So ... just wondering what the clarification means ...

Does the clarification mean that artillery ignores enemy artillery to shoot at priority targets behind ? Or does it mean that the player can <choose> to shoot at the artillery if there are formed units behind it (even if at different range bands) ? Am confused by what "optionally" means I guess ?

Cheers all,

Keith

RogerGreenwood
Chef de bataillon
Messages : 384
Enregistré le : ven. 29 nov. 2019 20:55

Re: shooting through artillery units - the clarification

Message par RogerGreenwood » dim. 19 sept. 2021 07:21

We had fun with this one too. Our opinion is that fire is on the formed unit. We would not give an option.

Hazelbark
Adjudant
Messages : 85
Enregistré le : mar. 19 mars 2019 21:01

Re: shooting through artillery units - the clarification

Message par Hazelbark » sam. 9 oct. 2021 22:12

From the clarifications:
"As artillery can fire at different ranges, firing priorities are assessed according to the closest range: first at short range, then at effective range and finally at long range. The target at the closest range always has priority over those further away."

So normally
1) Shooter has an unformed unit at short range and a formed unit at effective, then the short range unit must be the target.
2) Shooter has unformed target closer than a formed unit but at effective range for both, then the formed unit must be fired upon.

*) You cannot shoot through a unformed unit unless specified. I.E. and disordered infantry line is not fire through (ignored) to shoot at a unit behind. (it still may have bounce through.

Which brings us to the answer which is artillery at short range can be fired through to strike a formed unit at effective range.

Adrian Steer
Capitaine
Messages : 206
Enregistré le : ven. 4 sept. 2020 20:17

Re: shooting through artillery units - the clarification

Message par Adrian Steer » jeu. 11 nov. 2021 12:26

Dan, Just spotted this comment which I hadn't noticed before and it reveals one of the main areas in the rules that cause me considerable confusion. With target priority unformed troops are never mentioned in the list of target priorities, hence according to this only formed units can be shot at unless there is no other option I guess or a general intervenes. This causes various effects together which the confusion between skirmishers ( and irregular cavalry?) who are dispersed targets and disorder troops who have lost their formation. This situation generally effects artillery because the number of units it can shoot at. First instance of debate you are shooting at a unit, score a hit and it fails its moral test retreats disordered and is still the principle target (if it wasn't disordered), however you are not allowed to shoot at this target as it is unformed- total rubbish as in war I'm sure the soldiers view would be to kick em while there are down to make sure they don't get up! This also applied to a formed unit in a building that fails its test but doesn't have to retreat but because it is unformed now ceases to be a unit of interest. Plus don't get me going about the difficulty of shooting skirmishers in buildings ( already discussed). However on the other side if you did have to shoot at skirmishers with artillery because they are in canister range. This would be a jolly wheeze to make artillery ineffective as at worse the skirmishers would only flee to come back again next turn as they aren't disordered. Basically in my view this section of rules needs a complete rewrite or a least a re-translate to understand how Herve intends these issues to be played.

RogerGreenwood
Chef de bataillon
Messages : 384
Enregistré le : ven. 29 nov. 2019 20:55

Re: shooting through artillery units - the clarification

Message par RogerGreenwood » jeu. 11 nov. 2021 18:19

Dan, I don't quite follow your logic here.
Point 1, you are saying an unformed unit at close range overrides a formed unit at longer range. In this case an artillery battery at close range is priority over a formed unit at longer range, (although a general could direct the fire through the battery if he joined the unit).

An interesting point here is that getting skirmishers in front of a battery and forcing the battery to fire cannister in an attempt to drive them away is going to happen a lot I suspect.

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zeitoun
Maréchal d'Empire
Messages : 1066
Enregistré le : sam. 19 janv. 2019 15:57

Re: shooting through artillery units - the clarification

Message par zeitoun » ven. 12 nov. 2021 12:03

RogerGreenwood a écrit :
jeu. 11 nov. 2021 18:19
An interesting point here is that getting skirmishers in front of a battery and forcing the battery to fire cannister in an attempt to drive them away is going to happen a lot I suspect.
I will check this to night. If i remember well , Skirmishers can always be ignored.
Cordialement

Olivier M

Adrian Steer
Capitaine
Messages : 206
Enregistré le : ven. 4 sept. 2020 20:17

Re: shooting through artillery units - the clarification

Message par Adrian Steer » ven. 12 nov. 2021 15:36

yes page 55 does say that artillery can ignore skirmishes and shoot through them at another target although this does seem optional if they are within canister range. ( I presume this overrides the mandate to use canister fire if possible). Would seem reasonable to me, however what about the issue of disordered troops being ignored and skirmishers in buildings as artillery targets?

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zeitoun
Maréchal d'Empire
Messages : 1066
Enregistré le : sam. 19 janv. 2019 15:57

Re: shooting through artillery units - the clarification

Message par zeitoun » ven. 12 nov. 2021 17:10

Hi Adrian;

the FAQ is clear for me.

First you check the range :
If one unit is in canister range then you must shoot at it (no matter is status )
If 2 units , priority for an ordered one , if the 2 targets are in order, then fire at the unit directly ahead, if none then target the closest one.

repeat this sequence for effective range

then to long range.

So no issue for me.

unless i misunderstand the question .. :lol: :lol:

regards
Cordialement

Olivier M

Adrian Steer
Capitaine
Messages : 206
Enregistré le : ven. 4 sept. 2020 20:17

Re: shooting through artillery units - the clarification

Message par Adrian Steer » ven. 12 nov. 2021 19:37

Thanks Olivier, I think that then allows you to use skirmishers as a way of defusing artillery fire at formed units and would not be reasonable. I would read the section on artillery fire and skirmishers ( page 55 in my book) as allowing artillery to ignore skirmishers and shoot at another formed target even if it were further away.
However I am with you that perhaps we should read Firing priorities as per page 50 then add another three bullet points below these saying the same for unformed units( with artillery being able to shoot through skirmishers at more distant formed units if they want) . This together with judging each priority rankings at each range should give a reasonable outcome. :idea:

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zeitoun
Maréchal d'Empire
Messages : 1066
Enregistré le : sam. 19 janv. 2019 15:57

Re: shooting through artillery units - the clarification

Message par zeitoun » ven. 12 nov. 2021 22:49

Adrian Steer a écrit :
ven. 12 nov. 2021 19:37
Thanks Olivier, I think that then allows you to use skirmishers as a way of defusing artillery fire at formed units and would not be reasonable. I would read the section on artillery fire and skirmishers ( page 55 in my book) as allowing artillery to ignore skirmishers and shoot at another formed target even if it were further away.
However I am with you that perhaps we should read Firing priorities as per page 50 then add another three bullet points below these saying the same for unformed units( with artillery being able to shoot through skirmishers at more distant formed units if they want) . This together with judging each priority rankings at each range should give a reasonable outcome. :idea:
Sorry Adrian, my answer was not fully complete..

You must read it like this :
First you check the range :
If one unit is in canister range then you must shoot at it (no matter is status )
If 2 units , priority for an ordered one , if the 2 targets are in order, then fire at the unit directly ahead, if none then target the closest one.
repeat this sequence for effective range
then to long range.

NB: FOR EACH RANGE YOU CAN IGNORE SKIRMISHER as per rules p 55.

Regards.
Cordialement

Olivier M

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