Engage orders

Ask a question about rules
RogerGreenwood
Chef de bataillon
Messages : 384
Enregistré le : ven. 29 nov. 2019 20:55

Engage orders

Message par RogerGreenwood » mer. 12 janv. 2022 15:45

Engage orders
1) Half the units must advance etc.
2) Cavalry must advance to tactical distance.

I have a cavalry division of two units in line, side by side facing the enemy 10 UD away. I have 2CP for the division. Which of the following is correct:
A) One of the cavalry must advance 8UD, a full move towards the enemy. Condition 1
B) One of the cavalry must advance at least 6UD until it reaches tactical distance. Because 2 qualifies 1.
C) Both of the cavalry must advance at least 6UD into tactical distance to fulfill condition 2
D) One cavalry must advance 8 UD, a full move, to satisfy condition 1 and the other cavalry must advance at least 6 UD into tactical range. This is because both conditions 1 and 2 are required to fulfil engage orders.

We have been using B but precise reading suggests both conditions need fulfilling and C, may be D is correct.

knightfast
Brigadier
Messages : 37
Enregistré le : mar. 17 sept. 2019 08:33

Re: Engage orders

Message par knightfast » jeu. 13 janv. 2022 08:30

Hi Roger

My reading FWIW is that the basic rules for an engage order are that at least half the units must advance. This should be towards enemy or objective. The next sentences clarify what they can do, Cavalry can charge but may halt at tactical distance. Infantry ay shoot at volley or skirmish.

This contrasts with Attack for instance where the troops must move as above but cavalry must charge if they are in range (and one of the at least 50% selected) and infantry must advance to volley range so no stopping at skirmish.

So in your example I think I unit must move towards the enemy, it may charge or may stop once it hits tactical, the other can pretty much do what it likes, so B with options to go in if it wants.

Rgds
Huw

RogerGreenwood
Chef de bataillon
Messages : 384
Enregistré le : ven. 29 nov. 2019 20:55

Re: Engage orders

Message par RogerGreenwood » jeu. 13 janv. 2022 09:31

Trying to precisely interpret the English in the rule is difficult. However, it does seem that B is the least likely to give an unreasonable result.
Reading the attack order in the same way allows cavalry not to charge if half the division is otherwise fulfilling the order.

After we have played and discussed issues at Daventry, I think I will have to try and see if it possible to write a clearer version of the orders section.

Adrian Steer
Capitaine
Messages : 206
Enregistré le : ven. 4 sept. 2020 20:17

Re: Engage orders

Message par Adrian Steer » jeu. 13 janv. 2022 10:15

Yes some clarity is needed, would be interested to find out how this is played in France.

Iceman1965
Soldat
Messages : 2
Enregistré le : sam. 31 juil. 2021 11:09

Re: Engage orders

Message par Iceman1965 » jeu. 13 janv. 2022 11:47

I'd also say B Roger.

As mentioned, Daventry will be an interesting weekend. It will be good to see if a general consensus can be reached which we can elaborate on, then it'll be good.

Yes interested to understand how it's played in France.

Avatar du membre
zeitoun
Maréchal d'Empire
Messages : 1066
Enregistré le : sam. 19 janv. 2019 15:57

Re: Engage orders

Message par zeitoun » ven. 14 janv. 2022 11:51

Hi All,

to fullfill the requirement of the engaged Order , only 50% of the units MUST do something according to the mandatory options.

So in your situation : 2 Units so only 1 MUST , either move fully, OR move to into tactical distance to any target.

The other one CAN do what it want for a Second PC.

Solutions A and B are both possible.
Solutions C and D are possible but not mandatory. Only one Cavalry can follow the order.

And you can also declare charge..
Cordialement

Olivier M

RogerGreenwood
Chef de bataillon
Messages : 384
Enregistré le : ven. 29 nov. 2019 20:55

Re: Engage orders

Message par RogerGreenwood » ven. 14 janv. 2022 19:01

Thanks for the reply. we have been playing it correctly. It is just that sometimes the rules are not quite so clear and we like to be sure.

Adrian Steer
Capitaine
Messages : 206
Enregistré le : ven. 4 sept. 2020 20:17

Re: Engage orders

Message par Adrian Steer » ven. 14 janv. 2022 20:01

Thanks thats a great help Olivier and I presume the same applies for attack orders? As we've been playing that if you can charge you must in addition to the 50% rule. Helps also with bringing supports in as well because they don't all have to charge and hare off after different targets ( although it did occur to me that we could get round that by charging the same target)

blucher
Sergent Major
Messages : 63
Enregistré le : sam. 18 juil. 2020 10:38

Re: Engage orders

Message par blucher » sam. 15 janv. 2022 11:07

Hello Adrian,

As mentioned by Olivier this is indeed the litteral understanding of the text in the French rule. And the way it is played in France.
I think this might slightly evolve in the future, as the number of tournaments and experiences grow.
Because my feeling is that these constraincts are quite light, as they allow the attack order (and engage) too much flexibility.
Luckily, in the BE tournaments so far, we have a group of pleasant players who play the spirit of the rule more than finding the small hidden weaknesses of the rule.

Also in 'friendly' game, for example our small group of players (a minority) used to restrict this a little, so that in case two cavalries with attack order are in front of two infantery squares, they are obliged to charge each their own target. Instead of just doing a chirurgical strike on one single unit (one charging and one supporting). This is not the official rule, but gives a little more challenge to the attack order...

There is another ongoing debate on the fact that a single cavalry is allowed today to support without receiving an action marker - so can charge (reaction) and pursue potentially in the opponent next activation for example. WIP, but very pleasant rule indeed.

Franck

Adrian Steer
Capitaine
Messages : 206
Enregistré le : ven. 4 sept. 2020 20:17

Re: Engage orders

Message par Adrian Steer » dim. 16 janv. 2022 18:23

Yes lots of issues however we played in our last game with attack orders the same of yours but felt it wasn't right as it would be too easy to do cheesy moved peeling supports off to charge troops that evaded and leaving the charging unit isolated by itself. We think the consensus reached here is probably the best outcome.

Répondre