Group charges

[knightfast]

Another one for the board - can limbered horse artillery charge as part of a group? We believe not but would like clarification.

Note this is not "will they provide support" but if I have a cavalry division off table and 1CP can the whole division launch a charge and bring the guns along for the ride.

Thanks
Huw

[RogerGreenwood]

As the rules say that a charge can be made by a group we have assumed that the charge move is just like a normal group move, but one or more units of the group attempt to make contact and have extra conditions for their movement. So my answer to the question is 'yes'.

[Hazelbark]

hate to disagree with my esteemed friend Greenwood, but p 42, "limitations" 3rd bullet.

If the 1 CP is a charge move, then i suspect no.

[RogerGreenwood]

Page 42:
"A charge can be made by a group"
"A charge is a movement to engage the enemy in shock combat"
I can see nothing that states that all the units in a group move must end in contact. Indeed it is normal (for our players anyway) to move the rear support line and others in a group move with the unit making contact.
The supporting units are not making contact, hence are not "charging units", the limitations paragraph does not apply to them. Only the group move rules affect them.
So what is the problem if an artillery battery is moving at part of the group move?

[Hazelbark]

I agree units don't need to physically end in contact. For example they may end in support.
I just think that the specific prohibition of artillery being involved in a charge prevents them from going along for the ride for 1 CP.

[RogerGreenwood]

We are debating what a charging unit is. For me, a charging unit is one that will attempt lo end in contact.
There are no special restrictions on group moves regarding members of the group making contact except for the particular units, the charging units, that do attempt to make contact.
If horse artillery can be part of a group move with cavalry then they can be in any group move with cavalry. For what you say to be correct there would have to be an exception in the group move rules excluding skirmishers and artillery if a member of the group charges. A complication which is not there.

[zeitoun]

Hi guys,

wa have got the same debat during Ballainviller's tournament.

The issue come from : "group move" and " charging units can bring with it support units"

I will see with Hervé if he wants to allow this possibility or not...

My opinion is it's more easy to said that : A entierly group can move during a charge phase if one of this units end in combat.."
rather than
Only units with it supports units can move...

[RogerGreenwood]

Indeed, it is what the rules actually say too!!
I think there is confusion with other rule sets that particularly specify charge moves.
BE is very straightforward. There are group moves. Units in a group move can end in contact unless they are skirmishers or artillery. There are some further restrictions on how the units that go into combat move. No need for more rules.
If we talk about supporters, they are only supporters when contact is made. If we go on about supporters then we need rules about what happens if the enemy flees and it gets really messy.

[gibbyj]

"A charge can be made by a unit or group" followed by
Limitations
"The following units cannot charge"
Artillery and Detached skirmishers.

Would lean me heavy to the No they can't charge camp.

[RogerGreenwood]

A charge is a movement intended to end in contact.
If the artillery are not intending to end in contact then they are not charging. They are simply part of a group move where one or more other units end in contact.

There is no such thing as a group charge move in BE. There is only a group move. Some of the units in the group may be intending to end in contact. These units are charging and are subject to limitations and restrictions. What the rest of their group do is only subject to the group movement rules.