Spanish Brigade squares

[Roundie]

I take it Spanish battalions may only form column square as a reaction to a cavalry charge and not a brigade square (made from 2x battalions)

[prussianhussaruk]

I take it Spanish battalions may only form column square as a reaction to a cavalry charge and not a brigade square (made from 2x battalions)

Think you best read page 156, seems clear to me.

[Roundie]

Thanks for replying but your statement didn't really clear anything up for me.

I have read page 156.

What happens when for example a unit of French dragoons charges a Spanish infantry battalion in the flank and it has friends within 2UD behind it?

No point in trying to form column square as you will still be hit in the flank.

So how do you form a brigade square? I'm thinking both battalions forming the brigade square would have to past a reaction test? Even if you past the test you can only reorientate or change formation. No movement to close the 2UD gap?

So I'm still thinking no

[prussianhussaruk]

Thanks for replying but your statement didn't really clear anything up for me.

I have read page 156.

What happens when for example a unit of French dragoons charges a Spanish infantry battalion in the flank and it has friends within 2UD behind it?

No point in trying to form column square as you will still be hit in the flank.

So how do you form a brigade square? I'm thinking both battalions forming the brigade square would have to past a reaction test? Even if you past the test you can only reorientate or change formation. No movement to close the 2UD gap?

So I'm still thinking no

It would have been better had you posted your fully question in the first place.

As you cannot form a battalion square with just one battalion, not only is there no point, but you are not allowed to. Only the unit that is being charged can react and as the enemy unit can only charge one of your units, the other unit is not allowed to react as it has no charge declared on it.

Page 156 does say that battalions and regiments can always form a column square, so why not just do that?

Don

[Roundie]

I understand single Spanish battalions can't form full squares. Column square won't save you if you are charged in the flank as column squares have flanks therefore no combat/formation bonuses apply. In charge reactions you can only change formation or orientation so you couldn't form a column square facing the enemy as you would need to do both (change formation and orientation).

Page 46 (reactions) states " A reaction may also occur if an enemy unit changes another friendly unit within 2UD's.
I believe this means that if I had 2 Spanish battalions (one behind the other) within 2UD of each other they could both react to a flank charge on the front unit. The front 1 reacts to the charge while the rear 1 reacts to a friend within 2UD being charged.

Soooo if they both make and past a maneuver test could they form a brigade square? Reactions only allow you to change formation or orientation not move. The units would need to move together to form a brigade square. Then again page 156 doesn't mention moving to form a brigade square, it just says a full square is formed by grouping 2 units into a single large square.

[prussianhussaruk]

page 9, 'The Square' says nothing about column squares being charged in the flank not counting as a square.

Page 46 (reactions) states " A reaction may also occur if an enemy unit changes another friendly unit within 2UD's.
I believe this means that if I had 2 Spanish battalions (one behind the other) within 2UD of each other they could both react to a flank charge on the front unit. The front 1 reacts to the charge while the rear 1 reacts to a friend within 2UD being charged.

The section you have miss quoted above is from 'Reactions to Movement' not 'Reactions to Charge' so does not apply. There is not mention of any unit other than the one being charged in this section.

So back to forming a column square.

Don

[Roundie]

Sorry Don I don't think I've miss quoted anything " A reaction may also occur if an enemy unit charges another friendly unit within 2UD's" that's word for word out of the rule book on page 46 and yes it is not a reaction to being charged it is a reaction to a friendly unit within 2UD being charged. Also stated on page 40
Manoeuvre test [
This test is used when a unit makes a formation change or a reorientation in the following cases:
bullet point 1
"In response to a charge on the unit itself or on another friendly unit within 2UD"

So if a unit is charged it may test to form square etc; if it fails it's disordered and in trouble. Any other friendly units within 2UD of it may also make a manoeuvre test if they fail they just don't get to react and are not disorder (no action marker is placed). Bullet point 2 under "If the test is failed"

After reading all I can find in the rules on column squares I would have to agree with you, they can't be flank charged. The rules do talk about column squares being less effective than full squares ie: only +6 in combat not +7 and only engaging in fire combat from the front or rear (not sides).
However when talking about safe flanks the rules state infantry units in square formation (doesn't state full or column so I guess that means both) have save flanks.

That said under fire combat, full squares fire from all four sides while column squares fire from only the front and rear. The rules then go on to say " Therefore units in square formation (again doesn't state full or column) can engage, respond to fire with each of its faces". Which column squares clearly can't, so in this case units in square formation only refers to full squares?

I suspect the phase "each of its faces" only applies to those faces that can shoot, be it full or column square.

So whenever the term square is used throughout the rules I guess it's refers to both forms?

In the end no closer to an answer about forming a brigade square as a reaction to a flank charge. I guess the point is mute now anyhow as your better off trying to get both units into 2 column squares.

Jeepers I really like these rules but,I do get a little lost reading them sometimes.

Thanks for your input Don
Wayne

[hcaille]

There are two kinds of square :
- Full square
- Column square

In both cases a square cannot be attacked on rear or flanks.
So if your spanish unit is charged on the flank you can try to do a Column square.

Spanish do full square only at brigade level (so with two units). This formation is clumsy and difficult to form so it is better to form individual column square.

Hope it help you