Is return fire mandatory

Ask a question about rules
Répondre
Viking709
Sous-lieutenant
Messages : 100
Enregistré le : ven. 11 oct. 2019 01:23

Is return fire mandatory

Message par Viking709 » mer. 22 avr. 2020 03:52

Hi
Have been playing for awhile
Question came up about return fire
We’ve been playing that a unit must return Fire if fired on by enemy infantry
But that is now in question because on page 50 2nd column on top it says the defender “can” return fire. Also in the French forum page 3 about a third way down under topic “shooting” Herve responded
Re: Shooting
Report Quote
Post by hcaille » Tue 17 Sep 2019 03:46

If a unit receives a shot, it can respond.
This then becomes a duel in the fire: the two units exchange fire.
The units must then make a morale test according to the rule on page 56.

Herve says “can respond” not “must respond”

Now it only makes sense that you respond in order to do more damage and make the phasing players unit test first. But there are times when two divisions face each other with attack orders and for division A to go first and then force a firefight puts an action marker on the opposing division 1 which now can not assault because it has an action marker

I would appreciate any clarity about this

Thank you

gibbyj
Adjudant
Messages : 92
Enregistré le : dim. 3 mars 2019 22:32

Re: Is return fire mandatory

Message par gibbyj » mer. 22 avr. 2020 06:27

Yes,imo return fire is mandatoy if its at salvo range. If someone moves to skirmish range and just snipes at you with his skirmishers you don't need to shoot back.
cheers
Jim

Avatar du membre
zeitoun
Maréchal d'Empire
Messages : 1066
Enregistré le : sam. 19 janv. 2019 15:57

Re: Is return fire mandatory

Message par zeitoun » mer. 22 avr. 2020 06:58

Hi All,

in another post Hervé told us that :

return fire is mandatory for Line but not for Column.

Like this unit in column can charge ( if still here :) ) i this turn.

Regards.
Olivier M
Cordialement

Olivier M

Viking709
Sous-lieutenant
Messages : 100
Enregistré le : ven. 11 oct. 2019 01:23

Re: Is return fire mandatory

Message par Viking709 » mer. 22 avr. 2020 12:35

Thank you for your response. I’m not trying to be hard headed BUT

We played that units receiving fire had to return fire But why then does he say “can” instead of “must” or “has too”
The point he made of columns under attack orders not firing was in regards to an Activated Division not being required to fire as it moved its full distance under attack orders

What caused my questioning to this is the example of two opposing divisions both under attack orders and all the line infantry on both sides were in line. Again if return Fire is mandatory then the second player is screwed because the first player moves up to 2UD blazes away at you and the second player now has to respond and take an action marker! Preventing him from charging when his division is activated. Worst yet the second division tactical doctrine says it fights in line so no attack column.

This is what happened in a game where Russian Grenadiers were fired at first by the French. Both were under attack orders and the French rolled to go first. So the French player moved up and blazed away and Russians E4 passed their test but now could not attack because of the action marker.

Avatar du membre
zeitoun
Maréchal d'Empire
Messages : 1066
Enregistré le : sam. 19 janv. 2019 15:57

Re: Is return fire mandatory

Message par zeitoun » mer. 22 avr. 2020 13:14

Hi
The point he made of columns under attack orders not firing was in regards to an Activated Division not being required to fire as it moved its full distance under attack orders
Hervé said in a french post that " UNITS in COLUMN DON'T HAVE TO RETURN FIRE" in reaction.

For the rest, That's correct.

units in line Must return fire, that's why it's important to try to playing first in this case.

P50 "mandatory fire" (Left column) it's MUST fire at salvo range.
P50 Time of Fire (top right column )" when unit received a fire , they still have the possibility to return fire even if they have an action marker ". I think , but it's my opinion, that "CAN" return fire is linked to the Action MARKER.

Hopefully , when you play after your opponent, most of your units have already an action marker, so it's easier to do what your want with the rest of your division's units.


Regards.
Olivier M " French guys waiting Hervé's reply" :)
Cordialement

Olivier M

gibbyj
Adjudant
Messages : 92
Enregistré le : dim. 3 mars 2019 22:32

Re: Is return fire mandatory

Message par gibbyj » mer. 22 avr. 2020 13:29

I think it says can because its to do with can return fire even if its fired before.

Otherwise , next time win the initiative, dont forget you can spend CP's to influence the iniatative.

On the column, not having to fire......Where is this covered in the rules.

cheers
Jim

Viking709
Sous-lieutenant
Messages : 100
Enregistré le : ven. 11 oct. 2019 01:23

Re: Is return fire mandatory

Message par Viking709 » mer. 22 avr. 2020 14:47

Thank you gibbyj and zeitoun for your response
Hopefully Herve will answer this

Avatar du membre
hcaille
Général de Division
Messages : 848
Enregistré le : jeu. 3 janv. 2019 09:48

Re: Is return fire mandatory

Message par hcaille » mar. 5 mai 2020 17:37

I confirm : unit in live must return fire (unless it is only a skirmisher fire).
Units in column can stand in order to be able to charge after that.

Viking709
Sous-lieutenant
Messages : 100
Enregistré le : ven. 11 oct. 2019 01:23

Re: Is return fire mandatory

Message par Viking709 » mar. 5 mai 2020 18:06

Thank you for clearing this up
Walt

Répondre