Firing through unformed units

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viperofmilan
Soldat
Messages : 7
Enregistré le : mer. 12 févr. 2020 22:56

Firing through unformed units

Message par viperofmilan » ven. 14 févr. 2020 13:25

The rules are fairly clear that artillery can fire though enemy skirmishers at formed units beyond, and that infantry can not fire through detached skirmishers. What about artillery and infantry firing through unlimbered artillery? Through limbered artillery? I would think that this is more likely to come up with artillery fire. I also would think that fire would be resolved against both the enemy artillery and the formed unit(s) beyond. Is this correct?

prussianhussaruk
Brigadier
Messages : 30
Enregistré le : sam. 9 nov. 2019 17:25

Re: Firing through unformed units

Message par prussianhussaruk » ven. 14 févr. 2020 14:44

Yes, it is clear only artillery can fire through detached skirmishers. No other cases are listed within the rules.

Ricochet covers the other cases you are asking about.

Don

Roundie
Grenadier
Messages : 23
Enregistré le : mer. 18 déc. 2019 04:20

Re: Firing through unformed units

Message par Roundie » ven. 14 févr. 2020 19:08

Not so sure Don (sorry Don)is correct about the "other cases" as this was discussed in another post on target priorities.

If firing with Artillery at targets outside canister ranger ie: unlimber artillery (unformed unit) in front of a infantry line (formed unit). you must target the infantry unit behind and ignore the deployed guns. The shot passes through the artillery with no effect hopefully hitting the infantry beyond.

If you want to fire at the enemy artillery and ricochet onto the infantry behind then place your guns on a hill or attach a general then they can target what they want.

That is my understand of the rules after reading all the posts under "target priorities" I would look there and see if that helps you.

Wayne

prussianhussaruk
Brigadier
Messages : 30
Enregistré le : sam. 9 nov. 2019 17:25

Re: Firing through unformed units

Message par prussianhussaruk » ven. 14 févr. 2020 22:04

There is nowhere in the rules which says you can fire through an unformed unit, so in the case you give as an example, you would have to fire at another formed target within your arch of fire. If no such target exists then you would have to fire at the nearest unformed unit.

Don

Roundie
Grenadier
Messages : 23
Enregistré le : mer. 18 déc. 2019 04:20

Re: Firing through unformed units

Message par Roundie » ven. 14 févr. 2020 22:56

Don best take that up with Hervé as he writes under the firing priorities post. (Sorry said it was in target priorities post stead of Firing priorities in my 1st comment)

"You can target an infantry unit that his behind an artillery as it doesn't block visibility or fire.
Artillery first target choice is massed infantry." Hervé's comments

"We have had this discussion before. If you look under 'visibility', troops do not block visibility. The formed troops behind are the target. As the author points out in another post, the guns are widely spaced. Maybe an unlucky hit takes one out, but this is not sufficient cause to include it in the rules.
If you really want to hit the guns, then put a general with them and get ricochet into the unit behind." RogerGreenwood's comment

prussianhussaruk
Brigadier
Messages : 30
Enregistré le : sam. 9 nov. 2019 17:25

Re: Firing through unformed units

Message par prussianhussaruk » sam. 15 févr. 2020 09:02

I can see this causing a problem where people don't follow all the forums posts. I hope this doesn't bring back arguments to competition wargaming.

I think the point needs to be made very clear in an update.

Don

RogerGreenwood
Grenadier
Messages : 23
Enregistré le : ven. 29 nov. 2019 20:55

Re: Firing through unformed units

Message par RogerGreenwood » sam. 15 févr. 2020 11:51

I would agree. We did not discover this for a couple of games. The rules do not explicitly state that troops do not block visibility. They are simply not on the list of things that do.
Perhaps we have played too many other games where the shooting priority list is more explicit.

Roundie
Grenadier
Messages : 23
Enregistré le : mer. 18 déc. 2019 04:20

Re: Firing through unformed units

Message par Roundie » sam. 15 févr. 2020 16:05

Yes, had it not been for the forum I would still be playing it wrong today.

Wayne

viperofmilan
Soldat
Messages : 7
Enregistré le : mer. 12 févr. 2020 22:56

Re: Firing through unformed units

Message par viperofmilan » lun. 17 févr. 2020 11:49

So, just out of curiosity, what is the consensus on my original post?

RogerGreenwood
Grenadier
Messages : 23
Enregistré le : ven. 29 nov. 2019 20:55

Re: Firing through unformed units

Message par RogerGreenwood » lun. 17 févr. 2020 15:47

I'm not sure we have a consensus. I offer the following.
No troops block visibility.
Where the target priority mentions "formed unit" these are fired on through any unformed enemy.

The following are of note:
Disordered troops are not formed. One must assume that such troops have become dispersed through combat. It is quite feasible to have artillery firing through a skirmishers line, a disordered unit and targeting a formed unit behind both.

The firing priority is not just for artillery. It might be possible for infantry to target an infantry unit behind a skirmishers line if they get too close together.

In most cases there will be "return fire". So if an informed unit targets an enemy it will be fired back on.

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