change formation and charge question

Ask a question about rules
Adrian Steer
Sous-lieutenant
Messages : 119
Enregistré le : ven. 4 sept. 2020 20:17

change formation and charge question

Message par Adrian Steer » lun. 17 janv. 2022 11:42

I wonder why when you change formation prior to charging you are not allowed to wheel as this makes it almost impossible to charge as you are expected to charge straight ahead along a line that connects the centre of the front edge to the centre of the target without doing an oblique move! Am I missing something here? I suspect that most people would play it they move straight ahead and contact the enemy unit wherever but if they can't a charge isn't allowed with a formation change is this right?
Linked to this question may be the confusing charge example drawing on page 43 where I can understand how B1 gets to the position it does against A3 but totally fail to understand how it ends up in the illustrated position against A1, anybody throw some light on this or is it just plain wrong?

Avatar du membre
zeitoun
Général de Division
Messages : 959
Enregistré le : sam. 19 janv. 2019 15:57

Re: change formation and charge question

Message par zeitoun » lun. 17 janv. 2022 18:08

Hi Adrian,

i agree, B1 vs A1 could not be done this way... As it suggest a oblique move.

changing formation before charging can be done by Class A infantry and Cavalry, or B cavalry if target is between 4UD or 6 UD.. so not so much units or situations.

But you're right , if you change formation you can only go straight ahead.. In France, and I deplore that, we are flexible concerning the center to center for contacting units. But if not, there is few situations where this possibility can outcome.
Cordialement

Olivier M

Adrian Steer
Sous-lieutenant
Messages : 119
Enregistré le : ven. 4 sept. 2020 20:17

Re: change formation and charge question

Message par Adrian Steer » lun. 17 janv. 2022 18:40

Thanks for that Olivier, Glad I wasn't missing something fundamental to my understanding I suspect that we too in the UK will need to be somewhat flexible in our approach :o

RogerGreenwood
Capitaine
Messages : 283
Enregistré le : ven. 29 nov. 2019 20:55

Re: change formation and charge question

Message par RogerGreenwood » lun. 17 janv. 2022 22:20

'Flexible' is a little difficult. Someone will always want to be more flexible than their opponent wants :D

In many cases, I think that if you want to change formation before a charge it will be possible to set the direction in the previous turn.

I cannot think of many situations where we have wanted to change formation prior to a charge.

However, it would be nice to have the rules changed to allow a wheel after a formation change. I don't think it would cause any issues.

Adrian Steer
Sous-lieutenant
Messages : 119
Enregistré le : ven. 4 sept. 2020 20:17

Re: change formation and charge question

Message par Adrian Steer » lun. 17 janv. 2022 22:29

I can think of a number of ways this can be used and see little point in the stipulation for charging straight ahead.

Avatar du membre
zeitoun
Général de Division
Messages : 959
Enregistré le : sam. 19 janv. 2019 15:57

Re: change formation and charge question

Message par zeitoun » mar. 18 janv. 2022 12:19

RogerGreenwood a écrit :
lun. 17 janv. 2022 22:20

However, it would be nice to have the rules changed to allow a wheel after a formation change. I don't think it would cause any issues.
If you allow a wheel after a formation change, you give more power to class A. And for a difference of only 1point of budget, it coud be a issue.

I agree. Flexibilty could be an issue too. I prefer to be not flexible , it's easier to know in this case what is allowed or not.
Cordialement

Olivier M

Hazelbark
Sergent Major
Messages : 75
Enregistré le : mar. 19 mars 2019 21:01

Re: change formation and charge question

Message par Hazelbark » jeu. 3 févr. 2022 21:23

If you allow a wheel after a formation change, you give more power to class A.
I would be fine with this.
1) The cost over an army of class A is noticeable and these troops should be a bit better than they are in my opinion.
2) It helps take away some geometry of overly measuring.
3) Melee attacks are not without considerable risks especially for infantry.

Hazelbark
Sergent Major
Messages : 75
Enregistré le : mar. 19 mars 2019 21:01

Re: change formation and charge question

Message par Hazelbark » jeu. 3 févr. 2022 21:28

zeitoun a écrit :
lun. 17 janv. 2022 18:08
In France, and I deplore that, we are flexible concerning the center to center for contacting units. But if not, there is few situations where this possibility can outcome.
So I think the flexibility is in charging to center. I don't think p 42 says you cannot charge unless you can contact he center (that would shorten charge ranges slightly and be unnecessarily complicated). So if after a formation change a straight charge would bring you into some kind of contact that would be legal I think.

RogerGreenwood
Capitaine
Messages : 283
Enregistré le : ven. 29 nov. 2019 20:55

Re: change formation and charge question

Message par RogerGreenwood » ven. 4 févr. 2022 00:07

Reading the rules again, the precise wording is that the charge must be made along the line connecting the centres of the charger and target. This is not quite the same as charging in the direction of that line.
I am thinking the solution to several charge issues is to take the rules as written. I.e. so long as during the charge some part of the unit is always on this line, the charge is legal.

It is easier to show as a picture. Essentially, although the charge starts with the centre of the charging unit on the line of centres, it may end with any part of the front of its base over the line. Hope my meaning is clear.

Hazelbark
Sergent Major
Messages : 75
Enregistré le : mar. 19 mars 2019 21:01

Re: change formation and charge question

Message par Hazelbark » sam. 5 févr. 2022 16:51

I plan to tinker with your proposal to see what I think about it. It may be simpler. It does allow some ability to dodge intervening units which makes be cautious.

Répondre