Supporting a charge

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RogerGreenwood
Capitaine
Messages : 236
Enregistré le : ven. 29 nov. 2019 20:55

Re: Supporting a charge

Message par RogerGreenwood » lun. 22 nov. 2021 17:20

However, the rules make no mention of supporters having to be within 4UD. Quite often a rear support for a counter charge, for example, is very unlikely to be within 4UD.

To avoid all these issues the interpretation of charge support is best interpreted as "at the time the charge is declared".

It looks like we will be adopting this interpretation for our games tomorrow. However, we would like to have a universal interpretation of the rules and I am always pleased to hear what the more experienced French have to say. (Even if you are wrong 😁😁).

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zeitoun
Général de Division
Messages : 824
Enregistré le : sam. 19 janv. 2019 15:57

Re: Supporting a charge

Message par zeitoun » lun. 22 nov. 2021 20:33

hanks Roger, ( i agree i'm wrong ..... sometimes :lol: :lol: )

you're right , supported units from flank or rear can follow the counter charging even if they are out off the 4 UD, and artillery can also support melee if at effective or short range ( so lot of the time OUT off the 4 UD)

I re read the rules , i understand your issue....

Units can be in support position but not in groups.. ( I never see that before, but i agree it's possible) .Usually, units in support have the same facing.

For me, and i will ask tonight hervé, here is the resolution order..

1 / you must declare the charging units.
2/ you can charge in group (p42), and all units in the group can move at the same speed. (bonus included p42)
3/ if you charge in groups , you must end in groups at the end of the charge move.
4/ if you want to add more support (moral or by fire) who are not in group at the beginning of the charge, you must paid Extra PC.
5/ When the charging units arrived at 4 UD ( if started at 8UD or more) or when it have move half the distance ( if start lesser than 8UD) , one reacting units can counter charge or React.
6/ if counter charging , support units can follow the counter charging units ( in this case there is no mention for groups ... only support units :cry: )
7/ defender and attacker can also add fire support if in range (effective or SK)
8/ DEFENDER CANNOT pay for moving other support to help in combat as he has got no PC.


Today, what i see in tournament is : you charge in group (defined p19) and if you want to add more support that are not part of this group you must pay extra PC (units from the same division) . And i think is the better solution. More clear.

I ask to hérve and i came back soon.
Cordialement

Olivier M

RogerGreenwood
Capitaine
Messages : 236
Enregistré le : ven. 29 nov. 2019 20:55

Re: Supporting a charge

Message par RogerGreenwood » lun. 22 nov. 2021 22:26

We are close to agreeing. I see an issue with points 4 and 8.
If under point 4, the attacker can move other units of the active division to support the charger, including by fire support, but under point 8, the defender cannot add other units for fire support, the situation is unfair for the defender.

Consider, both sides have a cavalry and infantry side by side (I will try a diagram)

Attacker cavalry Attacker infantry
---------- gap of, say, 8 UD -------
Defender cavalry Defender infantry

Attacker cavalry charges defender cavalry 1 CP, moves to 4UD.
Attacker spends 1 extra CP to bring infantry up for fire support.
Defending cavalry counter charges against attacker's cavalry.
Under point 8 you are saying the defender CANNOT bring up his infantry to add their fire support to cancel the attacker's fire support.

if this is the way Herve wants it, I can accept it. It is better to give advantages to the attacker. However, I would prefer that only units currently able to support may move with a charge. I.e. the attacker's infantry would not be able to support the cavalry as they are initially out of range. Neither would the defender's infantry. (assuming no rifles are involved).

Thank you for your prompt reply. I hope Herve does not think we are complaining, we really enjoy BE, it is a great game and we want to improve it as much as possible.

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zeitoun
Général de Division
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Enregistré le : sam. 19 janv. 2019 15:57

Re: Supporting a charge

Message par zeitoun » mar. 23 nov. 2021 12:09

I understand your position Roger. And be sure, there is no issue with your questions. I think it's a good sign, that's mean the rule is played.


But at the end attacker paid 2 PC for +1 in combat , and defender paid Nothing. If the defender was not previously activated , he can move his infantry to fire at the opponent infantry who's got an action marker ( infantry cannot moral support cavalery )

I'm waiting for herve's answer.

enjoy your game.
Cordialement

Olivier M

RogerGreenwood
Capitaine
Messages : 236
Enregistré le : ven. 29 nov. 2019 20:55

Re: Supporting a charge

Message par RogerGreenwood » mar. 23 nov. 2021 13:33

Thanks, I won my game with a good deployment aided by some fortunate dice rolls.
We agreed the controversial rules before playing!

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zeitoun
Général de Division
Messages : 824
Enregistré le : sam. 19 janv. 2019 15:57

Re: Supporting a charge

Message par zeitoun » dim. 28 nov. 2021 17:06

Hi Roger and Adrian

i've just received the answer.

Support unit must form a group to move as support during a charge.
( if 45° on rear , then not in group , so must paid to follow the charging unit)

and

You cannot bring more support unit when you are reacting player, as you cannot paid for that. So avantage to the attacker

Regards.
Cordialement

Olivier M

RogerGreenwood
Capitaine
Messages : 236
Enregistré le : ven. 29 nov. 2019 20:55

Re: Supporting a charge

Message par RogerGreenwood » dim. 28 nov. 2021 17:55

Thanks for the answers. I think we will follow this for Tuesday's games.

Adrian Steer
Sergent Major
Messages : 74
Enregistré le : ven. 4 sept. 2020 20:17

Re: Supporting a charge

Message par Adrian Steer » lun. 29 nov. 2021 19:59

Thank you again for your clarifications its a great help.

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