Supporting a charge

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RogerGreenwood
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Supporting a charge

Message par RogerGreenwood » lun. 22 nov. 2021 10:37

The rules state that supporting units from the division move with the chargers, paying CP as required.
When a charge is declared, does this mean that units in supporting positions at the moment the charge is declared may accompany the charge, or can any units of the division move if they are able to get to a support position when the charge makes contact?

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zeitoun
Général de Division
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Enregistré le : sam. 19 janv. 2019 15:57

Re: Supporting a charge

Message par zeitoun » lun. 22 nov. 2021 12:13

HI Roger,

Can you illustrate you question ?

In first instance, for 1 PC you can move a group during a charge (charging units + supports units) . If other units not part of the charging group want to move in support, you must 1 more PC.

Regards
Cordialement

Olivier M

RogerGreenwood
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Re: Supporting a charge

Message par RogerGreenwood » lun. 22 nov. 2021 12:35

For example, I have a cavalry unit with a unit inside 2UD in support behind it. The supporting unit is within the 45 degrees allowing support, but not facing the same way, so not in a group with the chargers. I know that when I declare the charge I can spend another CP and bring the supporters with the charge.
My question is, if there is a third unit, say 4UD to the flank of the chargers, neither part of the group or currently in a support position, can I spend a CP to wheel this unit and move it to a position where the combat takes place?

I will see if I can set up a picture.

RogerGreenwood
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Re: Supporting a charge

Message par RogerGreenwood » lun. 22 nov. 2021 12:53

Unfortunately I cannot add pictures to the text using my phone. I will try with the computer.

RogerGreenwood
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Re: Supporting a charge

Message par RogerGreenwood » lun. 22 nov. 2021 13:25

The photos I have taken are apparently too large to add to the post. I have put the question on the BE Facebook group with the pictures.

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zeitoun
Général de Division
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Enregistré le : sam. 19 janv. 2019 15:57

Re: Supporting a charge

Message par zeitoun » lun. 22 nov. 2021 13:28

RogerGreenwood a écrit :
lun. 22 nov. 2021 12:35
For example, I have a cavalry unit with a unit inside 2UD in support behind it. The supporting unit is within the 45 degrees allowing support, but not facing the same way, so not in a group with the chargers. I know that when I declare the charge I can spend another CP and bring the supporters with the charge.
My question is, if there is a third unit, say 4UD to the flank of the chargers, neither part of the group or currently in a support position, can I spend a CP to wheel this unit and move it to a position where the combat takes place?

I will see if I can set up a picture.
Yes it's possible to do that.

For example, 1 isolated infantry units wants to charge a unit in a building, I pay 1 PC for it. Then i pay 1 PC to bring a Skirmisher 6 UD far, to create a supporting fire.

For the moment we made only one exception for that (we had this situation on Ballanvillier's tournament last sunday and we still debat on it) is for bringing an limbered artillery unit to support a melee.
example : a group of 2 cavalery units charge. Not too far, an limbered artillery wants to add canister shot support by moving and unlimber at canister range for 1 more PC. Allowed or Not ????
Cordialement

Olivier M

Adrian Steer
Sergent Major
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Enregistré le : ven. 4 sept. 2020 20:17

Re: Supporting a charge

Message par Adrian Steer » lun. 22 nov. 2021 14:13

To me this is leading to chaos and not to the principles of each division operates separately. I would welcome a clarification from Herve as to what is allowed and what isn't, certainly moving an artillery unit that may not be even in the same division then unlimbering seems a bridge too far to me. I must admit that I prefer the interpretation as only those units that start the move in a position of support can be moved during a charge. Extra CP's can be spent to bring those who were not a group with the charges into the fight.

RogerGreenwood
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Enregistré le : ven. 29 nov. 2019 20:55

Re: Supporting a charge

Message par RogerGreenwood » lun. 22 nov. 2021 14:55

I assume the artillery would be in the same division, or the move would certainly not be permitted.
If you allow the skirmishers to move up and support then the artillery move is equally valid.
Given that neither the skirmisher nor artillery began in a support position, this is essentially the same question I am asking about with the cavalry.

RogerGreenwood
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Re: Supporting a charge

Message par RogerGreenwood » lun. 22 nov. 2021 15:14

What is likely to happen is that if units not currently in support can be brought into support positions, it is reasonable that fire support units will also be brought up (as described with the artillery and skirmisher situation).
What is more, is that if it is permitted for a charger to bring up these other units it must also be permitted to the counter-chargers. Since these are not limited to units from the same division, any unit that can get in a shot must be permitted to move in and get in a shot to support the counter-charge. Doesn't really look like the way it should be done.

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zeitoun
Général de Division
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Enregistré le : sam. 19 janv. 2019 15:57

Re: Supporting a charge

Message par zeitoun » lun. 22 nov. 2021 15:24

Adrian Steer a écrit :
lun. 22 nov. 2021 14:13
To me this is leading to chaos and not to the principles of each division operates separately. I would welcome a clarification from Herve as to what is allowed and what isn't, certainly moving an artillery unit that may not be even in the same division then unlimbering seems a bridge too far to me.
Hi Adrian,

it's only for units in the same division.
I must admit that I prefer the interpretation as only those units that start the move in a position of support can be moved during a charge. Extra CP's can be spent to bring those who were not a group with the charges into the fight.
and this is exactly the Roger's situation.

So we are on the same line.
What is more, is that if it is permitted for a charger to bring up these other units it must also be permitted to the counter-chargers. Since these are not limited to units from the same division, any unit that can get in a shot must be permitted to move in and get in a shot to support the counter-charge. Doesn't really look like the way it should be done.
except that reactions are allowed only for units within 4UD, and in some circonstances. So changing formation, firing in support, cavalery counter charge, OK but moving units out off this 4 UD , without PC (as you are reacting players you don't have some PC ) seems to much for me.

Regards
Cordialement

Olivier M

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